you must get good grades on essays … and stuff.

oh yeah , happy birthday you fraud!!!

nice man, but the proper spelling is conscience.

Shinda,

Before I go into what I think is not only faulty with your stance, but the pure ignorance of facts on your behalf, I offer a brief history of mine.

My name is Rajinder Brar. I was born in Ludhiana and came to Canada at the age of 18. I am currently living in Canada attending the University of Toronto. I am the son of a military commander, my father, thaiya and other family members gave their lives defending India and our motherland.

Please Shinda, with all the respect in the world, let me offer you a history lesson. Now, let’s look at why your arguments of pure emotion, is no way connected to the logical universe.

When a commentary is written, in order to be dubbed ‘well-written’ or accurate both factually and sensibly, you have to realize the disconnect between reality and emotion. Appealing simply to emotion is a great method that many separatist use, all the way in India to here home in Canada. Appealing to emotion is an AMAZING tactic to get away from sheer reality and fact, and to play on one’s sense of pride.

Wiping out generation of Sikhs? Sikhi won’t be tolerated? Shinda, by appealing to the pride of Sikhi is part of the reason why we are raising guns rather than raising our intellect.

You touched on a key issue of 1984, and a question that Khushwant Singh, and many other scholars like to bring up. WEEKS, not days, not hours, but WEEKS before the actual 1984 attack, the media, population and general community realized there would be a confrontation between Bhindranwale and the government. Why? Numerous buses, railway and car bombings around punjab targeted at Hindus and Lower Casted Sikh areas. Bhindranwale took a political movement, one is which he was paid large sums, and turned it into a religious movement. How? By BEING THE FIRST PEOPLE TO BRING GUNS INTO HARIMANDIR SAHIB. By leaving a large confine, to walk into the holiest shrine in Sikhi, knowing that there will be damage, AGAINST THE PLEAS FROM MANY MANY GRANTHI’s.

Shinda, simply raising another question about the Indian government like you did regarding this move by Bhindranwale, is the biggest side-step, that is simply not acceptable. What could possibly be the logic behind this seemingly cowardly move by Bhindranwale? Is the fact that he dared the Indian Government or was it the fact that he justified his money laundering via my religion?

Many separatists who almost enjoy the actions of the government in 84′, love to draw on the fact that it was BIG OLD INDIA versus small old defenceless Sikhi, spurred on by Bindranwale himself. But what many of the separatist fail to realize is that India is governed by a larger body. If the attacks were NOT justified the larger body, independent of any Indian influence would have intervened. This larger body includes the United Nations, many countries of the G8 etc… NOW, HAVING SAID THIS… THE WAY THAT THE ATTACK WAS TAKEN OUT IS UNJUSTIFIABLE… But to think that the Indian government can do what they feel with no repercussions, it is a self-fulfilling prophecy… re: Kosovo

One thing is absolutely hypocritical is, the SAME PEOPLE WHO TRY TO BRING AWARENESS TO THE DESTRUCTION OF HARIMANDIR SAHIB AND HOW IT IS A SLAP IN THE FACE OF SIKHI, ARE THE EXACT SAME PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO ACCEPT THE AUTHORITY OF HARIMANDIR SAHIB TODAY… In 20 some years, it is absolutely incredible how people can go from defenders of the shrine, to the ultimate betrayers of the shrine, but that’s another issue.

I agree to never forget 1984, however, does that mean we cant work together towards a new better country for both. Here’s a quick history lesson for you: When countries obtain freedom, those countries will usually go through some sort of trouble.

The United States of America had slavery, oppression of blacks (minorities), and numerous other occurrences that trump the actions of 1984.

How about Bosnia? Can’t even get an estimate of deaths in that country.

How about the 40-50 THOUSAND Aboriginal Indians killed in Canada?

The Fiji Islands, France, Spain, Sweden…. All countries who have gone through mass genocides close or near dates of freedom. Similar to India, these countries went through issues directly related directly to the lack of structure left by their previous governing bodies.

To think, 30-40 years ago in America a black person couldn’t event take drink water in the same place a white did. Now, there is a high chance there will be a black president.

Lets go back to India for a second. 20 some years later, and there is a Sikh President. Fortunately for us, sikhs suffered some violence (and we dished it out as well) but this is NOT going on in India anymore, as much as the people who love for sikhs to play the victim role, would like you to think.

In 1947, the freedom of our country and people were fought in the fields of Punjab. Prior to that, the freedom of our people were fought against the biggest Raj in world history.

We took urination on the Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, from english commanders, but we forget.
WE took the genocides of Sikhs in Punjab from the Raj, but we seem to forget.
We took the raping and killing of our women and children for years from the Raj and the Pakistani’s, however we seem to forget.
What is the most ultimate atrocity of Operation Bluestar? The way that we lost our way in Sikhi. THIS, is not lost in the Granthi’s and the Sikh leaders of our time, however, it is DEFINTELY lost on the observers of this situation,- IE- CANADIAN, AMERICAN YOUTH

To Sikhi to prosper we need to be realistic. Not dream about a land that would not be socially, politically and economically feasible see: Darfur. Rather, your job as a youth far removed from the situation, who gained their only opinion from numerous passionate talks, the internet, and other self-justifying individuals, is to be objective for your religion.

The best part of talking to the separatists supporters is to point of their flaws in logic.

WHAT SEPARATES YOU FROM SUPPORTERS OF BIN LADEN, FROM SUPPORTERS OF SADDAM HUSSEIN, FROM SUPPORTERS OF ADOLF HITLER?

Supporters of these men all claim the same defence, the oppression of their race and creed. So the next time one criticizes the Islamic Extremist movement, or the next time one, looks at the attacks of 9/11 and questioned the sanity of all those men who did that— realize that mentality and evil lies within all of you.

Hopefully, as the state of Punjab gains prosperity and the state of India continues on the trend of becoming a world leader in many fronts, maybe you’ll realize your emotionality and the disconnect with reality and education.

Until then, please don’t insult Sikhi by grouping all Sikhs as supporters of this movement, it is an insult. Secondly, please, if you preaching the separation of your people, do not call yourself PUNJABI.

PUNJABI is not simply a type of people. It is a way of life, and many of you want to change this way of life. So until you are not willing to support and make Punjab a unified presence, do not call yourselves Punjabi.

We never forget our history, but if you continue to look back, we will never move forward.

..With a little work will get that Chicken!

you have a large ego shinda, yet very insecure….

Shinda,

If your going to have a debate, make sure you don’t take it beyond your understanding. First off, my father and family died fighting in Kashmir defending your family and other against Islamic terrorist who threatened all of our lives. Therefore, before you end up sounding like an moron again, make sure you realize that my father and family were better Sikhs than you will ever be. How do I know this? I have never met you but I can definitely tell you that, my family would never question one person’s death and insult the dead. My family have more respect that to blindly insulting the death of another, after they defended the state which you live in, regardless of how much you hate that land. So next time you try to insult the dead, make sure you know why they died and whom they died for. However, its not surprising to me that a Khalistani doesn’t understand sacrifice, doesn’t understand patriotism and doesn’t understand selfless surrender for the unity humanity.

After reading those statements, I was deeply a) insulted and b) disgusted at your views. Its funny you know, maybe its me, but I think that you are always able to debate and have different views, but claiming that my father and my family have blood on their hands, and relate my views on that is absolutely uncalled for and disrespectful.

Shinda, it seems you are in need of an awakening. You are disrespectful, insulting and absolutely racist in its every sense. I would venture to say that when you continue to think the way you think, you will remain in relative mediocrity for the rest of your life. Usually people who can rarely find the dependency to respect another person’s being, usually tend to be people who amount to nothing much themselves, but I wont insult you and your family the way you so readily insulted mine.

As for your arguments, you almost have no credibility, having said that, I’ll let you in on a couple of secrets.

If you want to claim that your people are somehow freedom fighters or fighting for anything that is remotely honourable, I ask you what honourable person blows up a plane full of children and women and innocent people in the name of their religion? I ask you what honourable person takes guns into their holiest shrine, and basically offering a death sentence to all of the residents of that shrine? I ask you what honourable person justifies more death with the claim that THEY are repressed?
People like you don’t understand honour. Don’t understand the sacrifice of my family, THAT IS BOTH EVIDENT BY YOUR STATEMENTS AGAINST MY FAMILY AND YOUR VIEWS IN GENERAL.

—————————————————————————

For the rest of the people who posted in this thread:

You wonder why Sikh youth aren’t taken seriously? You wonder why Jewish, Black and other seemingly minority sects are making a bigger difference in society than we are? Because you have what can only be described as idiotic statements from 99% of the youth.

What were the rubtles? Honestly, laughable and disgusting. RSS? Are you guys for real? Name calling? HA. Wow, I literally thought that the majority of people have moved past that elementary phase. However having said that, it really sows how serious you people are in your conviction if your responses are jokes and name calling.

It shows that your separatist views are nothing more than pleas to your ego and your need for affirmation of your religion by others, than reality, but hey, its NOT news to me.

——————————————————————————

Let me look at Shinda’s claims:

Let’s keep in mind who is saying this. First off, lets look at the facts. A young male living in CANADA, behind a computer speaking about Indian issues even though far removed from the situation.

Similar to a janitor giving medical advice, you really have to look at the credibility of the source.

Your right Bhindranwale was accessible. Yup, I also define accessibility as a person hiding in a 30 acres estate in Amritsar surrounded by armed guards, and fortified by guns and weaponry. Look at the interview done by an Austrilian journalist on you tube and you will see his accessibility.

Now that I have settled that prophecy of yours, let me settle others. If your going to support something make sure your not going to support it blindly. When you are blind to fail to see the facts and reality.

http://www.history.com/tdih.do?action=tdihArticleCategory&id=6920

http://www.punjabtrauma.org/

I choose this article amongst hundreds of others. Notice the lines about the terrorists killing hindus and Sikhs. Furthermore, why don’t you check out the second website. Maybe it will shine a light on your so called martyrs, that just because they claimed your religion during their hatred, doesn’t mean your religion accepts it in any manner. Realize, these people terrorized this state of Punjab, and why many Sikhs and all punjabis hated the separatist movement prior to 84. Even so, mention of this movement anywhere in Punjab now, you probably wouldn’t have any hands to write your racist and elitist posts.

———————

If your going to understand one part, this is it……

Now you bring up history, and this is where I rub my hands together. See with any separatist movement its ALWAYS great to bring up history, because the honourable and how we have defined honour in history is ALLIGANCE, PERSERVERENCE and INTEGIRTY

I’m looking at this situation objectively and as the outside looking in as well as someone who lived in Punjab for the majority of my life.

You took issue with my comparing Bhindranwale to Bin Laden, Hitler and Hussein, alright, I’ll take your bait and compare him to the positive leaders in history. We’ll compare him to leaders who fought against proposed oppression. Many of the following are Noble Prize winners and accepted activists and real sants.

Martin Luther King Jr

Rosa Parks

Nelson Mandela

Aung San Suu Kyi

Rigoberta Menchu Tum

Dalai Lama

Frederick Douglass

Susan B. Anthony

Mother Teresa

Eleanor Roosevelt

Patsy Mink

Now, let’s talk to world scholars, and world historians, and the people who dictate who is the leaders of our time. Now, I wonder if any of them will include Bhindranwale on their list.

This may be enlightening for you, and new information, but to world historians, this is not news (not that they even consider Bhindranwale)

Do you want to know why he will never be compared to positive leaders of our time? Do you want to know why your “martyr” will never be considered a martyr in history, because, news flash, he is not, and never will be.

Look at every single person on that list, and list that I made it not even thinking about what they did but what they accomplished. .

This is important… NONE OF THEM, NOT ONE PERSON CLAIMED TAKING ONE LIFE, IS IMPORTANT IN REACHING THEIR GOAL.

NOT ONE OF THEM, preached death in order to reach what they perceived was right. Do you want to know why shinda? Because if you are fighting for humanity as what bhindranwale said he was doing, he would not promote taking a life. If you a fighting for a civil society, and a society that is best for all, then you would not promote raising guns.

It makes zero sense, and is against logic and this is why khalistani’s depend on emotion. This is why Khalistani’s want and need to blame problems and scapegoat their problems. This is why the world didn’t and doesn’t take notice.

From Luther King Jr. (who said he came to India not as a visitor but as a pilgram because he adored the way that one culture unities so many people- something he wanted to bring to the United States) to Patsy Mink, each and every single person accomplished their goals without appealing to one’s ego the way bhindranwale did. All accomplished goals, without dropping a single drop of blood the way of bhindranwale did.

And in the case of many, all of them sacrificed either their lives or imprisonment and faced their sacrifice for their cause, unlike committing suicide and going out like a coward the way Bhindranwale did.

BUT HEY, what do you know, didn’t Hitler commit suicide? Didn’t Bin Laden say when troops close in on him, he has a gun to shoot himself in the head? Hey, didn’t Hussein tell all his commanders to kill him before he walks into the hands of the Americans?

Didn’t all of them, claim and carried out the fact that they thought death of others is the way to overcome oppression?

Get it through your head Shinda. There is a reason why the western world doesn’t care, nor the world community looked past this hateful being. This is because even entering him in the same sentence as someone such as Rosa Parks and Nelson Mandela is an absolute disgrace.

I won’t even get into the Darfur issue because your response was laughable. Obviously, unless it is the Indian government doing something bad, you don’t seem to pay attention to world issues. Check out how the Darfur movement and the sanctions each country has put on the Sudanese government. Check out how the Darfur movement is amongst the biggest in recent history. I’m not saying enough is being done, I’m saying comparing the oppression of the Darfur movement to the Khalistan people is a disgrace to the Sudanese people. Get educated, THEN get opinionated.

I believe there is no excuse for 1984. I have saddened for each life lost and don’t deny ill will on behalf of the Indian government. But I realize there is a bigger issue, which is humanity. We keep on looking behind and never look forward. We harbour ill will, and don’t feel any alliance to what of Guru’s preached, and that is love and respect for each and every soul.

Thankfully Shinda, you don’t have to worry about any of these issues. I think you know in the hearts of hearts, that you are thankful you can preach this behind a computer, rather than giving up your life for what you believe is right. Its probably because your logic as a human being allows you to see beyond the emotion. Maybe its because that you know its not worth it to give up your life to fight for this, unlike how so many youth gave up their lives in the civil rights movement.

Shinda, as a blogger, I want to remind you what will continue to allow you immunity from intellectualism. I want you to remember that you should continue to look beyond what makes sense. You should continue to look past humanity and continue to preach that isolation of one’s religion, being or ideology is the best thing for everyone.

Because, we are an individualistic society, and the eastern world is not. Therefore, make sure you make this an individualistic issue, because that is what many of you preach, selfish behaviour, and the death of humanity.

Taksali,

Paaji, first off thank you for your condolences. I guess the immaturity seen in Shinda to make a cheap point, doesn’t affect you and thats great to see, thank you again.

What I find with many people of these thought, is that they fail to see history. Did I forget 84? No. Everyday I remember those couple of days….

But what is more important is that I never forgot thousands of days prior to that.

Theres more I never forget……

I never forgot what Bhagat Singh said preparing to die in his jail cell, that he would give himself up 1000 thousand times, to be proudly be called an Indian once.

I never forget the lives of thousands on Sikhs and Indians, who gave their life fighting against opression from the British Raj.

I never forget the slavery set forth by the Raj, AND ALL OF THOSE COMMANDERS WHO ARE STILL NOT BROUGHT TO JUSTICE

I never forget the thousands of lives lost in the jameens of punjab from 1945-50, including 1947, fighting against people who challenged the thought that democracy can never prevail. Fighting against people who thought, sikhs were too shallow to live peacefully.

I never forget 1965, when people, in the name of their country, in name of those who fight for their country, got up and answered the call of duty.

I never forget the fact that from christians in Tamil Nadu, to Sikhs of Punjab, to jains, hindus, buddhists, that all these people looked at one another in the trenches, and took a bullet for one another, so they could protect their land.

I never forget, that each person only knew what was their India. To my father, it was Punjab, it was Ludhiana. To the man who took risked his life for my father it was Manipur. To the brave souls that my father gave commands to , it was Gujrat, Punjab, Assam, Goa etc…

I never forget that dispite this vast land, the man from Goa died so the man from Punjab could raise his family. The man from Gujrat died so the man from Haryana could freely live their life.

I never forget the ongoing presence of Sikhs in India, who all over the world be it in Afghanistan, Iraq, or PEACE KEEPING in the world, they are representing their country proud.

I’ll never forget when Bill Clinton said although it has had it struggles, India is the life blood of democracy.

There’s a lot more I dont forget, but the problem is, when you selectively remember certain instances, you dont choose to remember the rest.

————

History also will show you that blacks occured millions and millions of deaths by their country. They were enslaved, thrown away and pissed on and their country were the ones who did it.

History will also show you blacks were religated to the ghettos, where they still reside. They are still treated as the scum of society, ask any professor you know.

History will also show you, that blacks salute the flag just as much as the white man does.

—-

Taksali, dont be selective in your meomry. Dont be selective in order to fulfill your need for affirmation of religion.

If you think we dont have freedom to practice our religion, your living in a fantasy world.
If you think we dont have freedom of speech, I know you havent stepped a foot in India.
If you think our rights are unequal, you have a lack of inquiry in your mind.

In India, Punjabi people are the wealthiest of any state. In India, what you percieve as racism doesnt now exist in a way that is determential to our society.

In fact I challenged you to show me how in the last decade or so, or even before that, how Indian on a wide scale have taken away the rights of Sikhs, have taken away their speech and your other claims.

As you notice, I dont take well to un-supported claims. They are the single most causes of skewing reality. Therefore, unless every single waking second of your life is based on the fact that you know for a fact, for certanity without a doubt in the sky, that we are still suffering they way you think we are, I will show you how weak your stance is.

I didnt mean to sound harsh, if I did I apologize.

Take care brother,
Rajinder

Recently, an indian diplomat who had negotiated with Sant ji spoke up. He stated that Sant ji was very willing to negotiate and a peaceful comprimise had been reached. He also stated that the whole mess could easily have been avoided, and that Sant ji did not demand a separate state. This was the day before the attack.

Btw, you want sources? Than read the book I recommended, the one written by the former Hindu chief minister of Punjab, AR Darshi. Than comment and feel free to share what you think.

Ha,

No disrespect to you guys, but look at my post and then look at your rubtles.

This what I talk about when I talk about the fact that we play the victim role too much.

I hear India hates us. I hear, India doesnt like sikhs, India did this to us, and India did that to us.

YOU are the victim of the propaganda that is individualism in Sikhi.
———————–

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT…

Let me ask you this, why do you think that no sikh leaders, no religious leaders support this movment?

Why do you think Bhindranwale and his men choose to not respect the authroity of the SGPC and the Akali Dal?

Why do you think that these people who support this **** dont have the support of the religion that they are supposedly defending?

Do you have any idea what people would say to you if you disrespected the Akali Dal and the authority of of religion. Or do you guys just think it was a coincidence that Bhindranwale was the son of a poor farmer, uneducated, couldnt read and write properly? Do you think that this uneducated person was the leader of our time? Yeah, I wonder how great Khalistan would be with the leaders being those carrying guns, justifying death in sikhi, and being brutal the way Bhindranwale did?

In Sikhi we HAVE NO ALLIGANCE, but the alligance to our Guru’s and our Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

Am I proud to be Indian? Not that much. I dont really have an alligance to India, but Im proud of the sacrifice and the flag that is India. Im proud of the history. Im proud of the people of the land.

Its not a sikhi issue. I know so many hindu punjabi people and families that hate the indian government because of what happened at harimandir sahib, and what they did to many of their friends/ family members who are sikhs. Many of them feel betryal because they eat live and breathe the same life as the sikhs who suffered. So people think its just us hurt but from my experience its much more than that simple issue.

_————————————–

Do you want to know who Bhindranwale hated the most? WESTERN SIKHS.

He hated sikhs that cut their hair, wear suits, and are westernized. He didnt dislike them, HE LITTERALLY HATED EACH AND EVERYONE. He thought those were the scum of society.

Look at the interview on youtube on bhindranwale. You will hear the person describe bhindranwale’s hate for those people

He is tossing in his grave right now thinking abiout the people who support him.

Best comment ever: “The people who live outside India have the best grasp of the situation”

HAHAHAH, ENOUGH SAID.

THAT WAS GREAT

Okay,

So I’m still waiting for an educated response. I hear “you’ve been brainwashed by Indian propaganda” and that ” you are RSS”. Still waiting, and I think this is wait that will go on forever.

Jag how you manage to construe that Bhindranwale had no education to that if educated people follow him it makes up for his lack of literacy was a stretch I’m sure even the terrorist himself couldn’t have made.

First off, Bhindranwale spoke a lot about class systems, and how the structure of humanity wouldn’t allow for it, and that even us sikhs are at fault for following castes, yet he had no education on the matter of how that would influence society.

Bhindranwale could not even read the responses people brought to him. He couldn’t write back responses.

What this uneducated person did was the following: He took a movement in which he got paid LOADS of money for (thats right having your family and friends living in a 30 acres state and getting money for free and arming your family costs loads of $) and made it religious.

There is a reason why Khalistan had very little support pre-84. Has the message of alligance to land (which sikhi doesnt believe in) changed? NO. A CIRCUMSTANCE, REMEMBER CIRCUMSTANCE in which arose from the actions of Bhindranwale is the reason why westerners whom he despised so much follow him today (in addition to wanting to be as individualised as possible)
All the preaching for khalistan went back to those few days in 84, yet prior to that what did Bhindranwale base his arguments for? Illogical, idiotic, stupid, beliefs that the educated and religious saw through.

Next to your statement about OUTSIDERS UNDERSTANDING THE PERCIEVED DIRE SITUATION BETTER THAN THOSE WHO LIVE IN THE STATE (still cant get over that, hmmm- do you agree that people in China have a better grasp on the quebec separatist movement in Canada?) your next funniest statement is that Bhindranwale didnt hate Westernized Sikhs.

Have you even listened to ONE of his speaches? Or you another mindless stooge that he so easily influence, by preaching to your ego and saying sikhs are dieing, we need a new state?

Throughout his speaches, he barked about sikhs in the west not helping with the movement in India because the lack of respect they have for their reliion. He believed they were more caught up in the shaving their daree, making money, and living in a big house to understand the true situation in India.

Jag I would even beat my life, and all the blood in my veins, that you havent taken amrit, that your facial hair is nice and thin, and your hair is nice and stylish. Because 99% of the time, people who cant sympathasize with the truth and often guilty of the crime themselves.

Jag, this is not even disputed, amnogst westerners nor eastern people. It is not a secret, your acting as if what the reporter said was this made up, political jargon (what another khalistan supporter scapegoating the truth on something else?) shows how naive you are.

Jag, you know the saying “the apple doesnt fall too far from the tree”. I truly honestly believe that it is not by faith that a movement by an illiterate, uneducated, poor (accused of rape by sikhs- villagers not politicans) violent man, induces responses such as yours.

Propaganda? HA, are you serious. Yeah I can see the parallels between Nazi Germany propaganda running 24/7, causing the massacre of MILLIONS of jews, and the worst acts of terror in human history to myself believing that Khalistan has no educational basis.

I assume its by coincidence that the religious Sikh leaders dont support Khalistan? I suppose its coincidence that educated Sikhs, and that I mean the people who live in INDIA **** And actually know whats going on IMPERICALLY not via the Internet, and self-fulfilling prophecies*** dont support Khalistan? I suppose its a coincidence that this uneducated matter has gotten NO consideration, not even once, by the United Nations, and Amnesty International, the same accounts of which reports you would like me to read.

————————-

I read the responses to my posts, and you guys just dont get it, plain and simple.

Post after post after post you guys type this jargon that we suffered in 84, I NEVER DISAGREED. That in punjab there was violence on behalf on the police (in addition to the khalistan supporters) I NEVER DISAGREED.

But none of you looked at the historical aspect, be it, the respected leaders who came from oppressed stated, or even the logical aspect such as the fact it wont work economically, poltically, and in so many other ways.

—————————————————————

I’m going to leave you guys with 2 main thoughts, that if ANYTHING will arise change in you guys, these need to be understood

(1) THE LACK OF RESPECT YOU GUYS SHOW TO FAMILY

My father, just like Sikhs who understand their religion, died for his country. Because you guys are so filled with your self-supporting hate for a country you loose the fact that MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS OF SIKHS DIED AND WILL CONTINUE TO DIE FOR THEIR COUNTRY.

Perhaps the reason why nobody follows your hatred, is because you do have hatred, for people, and thats why you are anti-sikhi.

Khalistani’s are supposed defenders of Sikhi but you insult and degrade my father who was the proudest Sikh I have ever met in my life.

It is SO SAD, the biggest respect I get is from people within my country. You would think, those who grew up in the west, would understand sacrifice, because in India and punjab, it is a way of life.

You have let this movement (rooted in hate in other people, be honest with yourself) blind you from the humanity of our religion.

I DONT agree with the American war in Iraq and Afghanistan. You want to talk about terrorist and killers, you have them there.

HOWEVER, NEVER EVER WOULD I EVER DISRESPECT ANY OF THOSE SOLIDERS WHO DIED FIGHTING THERE. BECAUSE EVEN IF THE MOST CORRUPT IN HISTORY, THEY DIED FOR THE PEOPLE OF THAT LAND. THEY DIED FOR THEIR FAMILIES, AND FOR ALL AMERICANS.

So, for god sake, before you say, my father is tossing in his grave, or the fact that my father was a bad man and he has blood on his hands, realize, that millions of other sikhs, more dead than alive have blood on their hands.

Believe me, it is NOT lost to me that someone who supports Khalistan CANT understand the meaning of sacrifice.

It is not lost in me that you dont realize history and what it means for one to lose their father for somebodies family that doesnt even appreciate it.

I asked my father when I was young, WHO does he fight for, WHO did he give his life for at the age of 46. He said to me,

I give my life for you. For my wife, for my children. I give my life so even as MINOR as it may seem, I did something, to protect my family.

Also he said, I give my like for each and every person and their family of the land. He said he gives his life for those people and children whom whenever he is, not matter in punjab, or tamil nadu, that SEE HIS INDIAN UNIFORM, AND THE BIG PUGHREE, RUN UP, AND TOUCH HIS FEET FOR RESPECT.

The people who cant even speak the same language, but treat him as a god amongst gods.

My father gave his life for your family Jag, and im sure hes lying in peace and not tossing over that.

(2) ACTION

What did Bhindranwale say in order to achieve his goal, pick up arms and fight.

Jag, if this means as much to you as it seems, take the advice of your dead leader, and leave your nice home in england (the biggest assaulters in sikhi history) and go to india and fight.

These are words from your leader himself.

Oh wait, too much of a hassle? Or is it the little voice inside you saying that its not worth it Jag, it doesnt mean that much to you. Or is it the voice saying that it doesnt make sense.

Rajinder

HEY SHINDA

I WANT YOU TO READ THIS.

THIS IS TO SHINDA, AND TO ALL OTHERS WHO FORGET THE SACRIFICES PEOPLE MADE FOR THE UNITY OF PUNJAB/ INDIA AND WHO UNLIKE INDIVIDUALISTIC EXTREMISTS SUCH AS PEOPLE ON THIS SITE, USE PEACE, RELIGION AND UNITY TO ACHIEVE THEIR OBJECTIVES.

This is an article my friend sent me regarding the battlion that my father was in and died fighting for in Kashmir.

Shinda, please read this, and remember as you read it, that each and everyone of these men have…

“Blood on their hands”

Written by TIME magazine and a non indian, white american report is the author if that helps at all.

I realize to people who harbour ill feelings and keep grudges it is hard to see the real humanity that is involved in the Indian Army

Suprisingly the Indian army is comprised of amazing religious, dedicated men and women, who ONCE THEY WASH THEIR HANDS CLEAN OF ALL THE BLOOD, ARE KNOWN AS THE LARGEST ARMY WHO’S PRIMARY GOAL IS PEACEKEEPING (oh by the way fighting terrorist who kill in Punjab- sorry used to, like the Khalistani Commando force, thats peace feeping)

The Army is separate of the government. Separate from the hindu and sikh politicans who you have the real beef with.

Just like the poor kids fighting in Iraq, NONE OF THEM HAVE SO CALLED BLOODS ON THEIR HANDS. They are following the orders of their country. I know for you its hard to understand why they would because you have so much distain for the government, but some people have alligance to the land, to the people that you cant feel, because of your hatred.

Therefore, Indians are separate from the Indian government. Those include the people who fight and dont, so hopefully this opens your eyes a little after being blinded with hatred for so long.

Heres the link:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1597656,00.html

Looking forward to your response,

Rajinder Singh Brar

….says the guy crying behind the computer so far removed from the situation

HAHA

Now this is funny…
Stop your crying, take off your skirt, and lets end this tea party Jag.

Im an agent eh? HAHAHAHA WOW. How childish.

No comment you laalu, grow up

wow rajinder is the smartest human being on the face of this earth
rajinder i agree, ur perspective is right and we should look towards peace
your persepective is clear headed and I THINK YOU WIN
oh yeah, rajinder i like how you called out jag on his attempt to hide his identity that was halirious

in addition to his lack of maturity, you showed he is a liar as well

look jag i cant do it too

Thought I would just back up my words with that of 2 noble prize winners and one of the founding fathers of the United States of America… WHOM I THINK PROBABLY HAVE BETTER CREDIBILITY THAN A POOR ILLERATE FARMER WHO TOLD PEOPLE TO KILL FOR THEIR RELIGION…

Thomas Jefferson: Stated that the only way any state can exist without problems and suffering is if there is a seperation between chruch in state, meaning, for Jag and the other guy, separation between state and religion.

“Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should “make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” thus building a wall of separation between chruch and state.

Nearly every single intellect, leader, peace keeper, and the people who laid the base for world democracy believed in religious means that do not interfere with state and politics, for the sake of the state, and also the religion itself

Judging from your intellect claiming I won or lost (its great to see that it is just a game to you, justifies that you arent serious about any of this nonsense) I would to state that just because they arent sikh doesnt mean they dont have relatable ideas.

You would think if Bhindranwale could read, he would have taken off the gun and read that the only way to achieve democracy, peace and the true salavation of sikhi is not by claiming we need to fight back.

If you think that we need to fight in our religion you are solely mistaken, and you just continue to justify my thoughts that you have NO IDEA what your talking about, all you care about is being as individualistic as possible.

In sikhi we believe violence is the LAST option. If your going to justify that bhindranwale exhausted all other options your going to be pulling wool over the eyes of your fellow confused misled attention seekers.

I wonder what the situation of the blacks in America would be if Martin Luther King Jr, stood on Lincoln Memorial and changed his speach that told his blacks to stay the course of intellectual and moral prosperity to ones that we should take up arms and use the violence we complain of.

I have yet to have ONE intellectual response. Not one reponse to any of the posts whether its regarding the people who fought against oppression, to the lack of political, economical and social means, to now the pure philosophy of your “movement”.

Rather my responses that I get are that im an RSS Agent (ha cant stop laughing at that idiotic response).

Sikhi for me is not my religion, or an affiliation like many of you, rather for me it is a way of life.

Therefore when you guys speak of killing, shooting and murdering for sikhi it make sense at the most basic roots of sikhism and the teachings of the guru granth sahib ji.

We critisize those who didnt stop the killings of sikhs, yet will they not a have the exact same right to critisize us? Is this not a circle that will ultimately end up with for killing? If we can look at people and point their finger wondering why they used violence, but on the other hand, we promote and continue to be violent, are we not the ultimate hypocrite?

I’ll take a thought that a judge presiding over the numeromberg trials said to the Nazi killers that stood infront of everyone and proclaimed what they did was not bad but defensive acts

You cannot justify violence with intellectualism. You cannot bring about change but changing the amount of blood loss. You cannot change a person if you kill them first.